Answer for: What country do you trust the most in health care?
#13 United States of America
by teej 6 months ago
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12 Comments
I would like to see how you come up with your ratings? The best doctors and equipment are developed in the United States no matter what country they come from. In some instances other countries are free to use our newest technology while the FDA exhorts higher fees at the expense of the stockholders and the patients here in the country of origin. Canadiens come here, their Prime Minister was not the first, because they have rationed health care. Canada is pretty much resorting to forcing doctors to live in providences they don't want to to make up for shortages. Canadien doctors and nurses are moving south. If you want to improve the best heath care in the world then you need to get behind decreasing the power of government and bureaucratic agencies. It always amazes me that everyone cheers the democrats' promise to punish the "big insurance companies when they were the ones who created this situation in the first place.
We need to increase the number of health care providers, give the access to the latest and greatest in American technology and allow them to work in an environment free of the fear of frivilous and excessive lawsuits. It is way more difficult to become a doctor or Nurse Practitioner than it is to become a lawyer or politician but the sheep push for salary caps and puntitive damages for the former and allow the latter free reign over this country.
Wake up, America, before it's too late and you finally get to realize how screwed up the system in Cuba, Canada or China really is from experience.
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http://www.grupthink.com/answer/114694
http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html
I wonder how many of these people bitching about the lack of health insurance have enough money for Ipods, big screen tvs, new cars, fast food, cigarettes, drugs, alcohol, new clothes, etc.
It seems everyone has enough money for everything but their own health care, mortgages and credit card bills.
Health Insurance doesn't produce even one more physician, one more drug or device, and let this sector of American business work in a free trade or free market system.
Yesterday my wife got a call from a guy claiming to be a lawyer and a chiropractor bitching because the clinic had allowed his son to pose as over 18 to get some prescription pain meds. Instead of social services getting involved as to why this kid is running around posing as an adult to obtain prescription meds, the father is going to try and use this as a way to make a couple of million dollars. Talk about pimping out your worthless peice of shit kid.
Let's see any other industry or career in America that has to worry about crap like this and have to pay the malpractice insurance to cover it.
All you pussies, loafers, free loaders that want a cuban medical system, just go. The borders are just as porous the other direction.
Well, if the World Health Organization says so it must be real...NOT!
You really need to do some traveling yourself. I have been in most of the countries, I'm working in #22 Colombia right now. Most of the Docs are US trained and in some ways there are very good. What is good about their system is that you have to pay or you can't leave the hospital. Nobody else is taxed to cover your bills. They also are allowed to use technology developed in the US that the FDA will not allow in the US for protectionist and kickback reasons. They also, like most countries are not as large or have the same amount of people to deal with. Bogota has a population of around 5 million. That is less than half the size of NY City.
I remember back in the 90s when one of our docs was switching all of our protocols to match that of the WHO. We protested but to no avail until about a 3 weeks later the director of the WHO was exposed as a fraud who had manufactured his own diplomas. The WHO is also responsible for the coding system we use in medical billing. Go try to understand your bill the next time you go to the doctor's office. They're called IDC9 codes so see if you can tell me the difference between a "runny nose" and "acute sinurhinitis". Some insurance companies will pay for one and not the other.
The only treatments you can get out of the US that are better are ones that are only held up by the FDA because they are milking the kickbacks from producers of medical products.
I respect how you research things so here's a test.
What is the average, nonrefundable FDA application fee for submitting even the most benign drug or medical device for testing and approval?
What is the average period of clinical trials in the US when compared to the UK and what is the rate of drug recall per each country?
Good luck,
teej
42
"I wonder how many of these people bitching about the lack of health insurance have enough money for Ipods"
http://store.apple.c.../ipod_shuffle
I can get an Ipod for 49 bucks cheap. That's not even shopping around. Of course in an emergency situation, I'm not going to be able to shop around for a doctor. I'm just going to have to pay what's on the big fat bill. My appendectomy--$27,000. My bleeding ulcer--$23,000. That's how these bitching people are able to afford iPods.
"You really need to do some traveling yourself. I have been in most of the countries, I'm working in #22 Colombia right now. Most of the Docs are US trained and in some ways there are very good."
Evidently you have statistics to back up this claim that most Colombian doctors are trained in the US. You've no doubt made quite a number of doctor visits while you were down in Colombia to know that in "some ways they are very good."
I don't make a lot of visits to Doctor's offices for myself. I do however do medical site survey's and MEDEVAC a lot of people to Colombia Doctors. Many of the Specialists have offices both in the States and Colombia. Most are trained at some point in their careers and the medical schools that I visited in Bogota use American textbooks.
You bitch about your surgeries and conditions costing so much but you voted in the people who raised the high cost of doing business for medical providers. Why should they just work for free? Almost all of the conditions American's suffer from right now, 80%, are all related to lifestyle choices. No one forces people to smoke, drink, over eat, stop exercising but for some reason the weak willed feel they have a right to good health and that it is everyone else's responsibility to pay for it.
Go price some malpractice insurance for everyone from a general practitioner to an OB/Gynocologist. Go price the tutition and expenses required to obtain both the prerequisite courses and the medical degree. Add up the hours of internship and residency required to become certified to practice medicine. Add up the taxes that providers have to pay each year compared to people who decide to collect unemployment in between getting fired from fast food establishments.
I actually met some idiot in the SEATAC airport who thought that she as a hotel maid worked harder than any doctor. She became insulted when I asked her how many hours of physics and biology she had to complete just to try out for advanced bedmaking and toilet scrubbing.
As long as we keep punishing productivity out of an ambiguous sense and definition of "fairness" we will pay high prices for health care.
Someone complained on this site that their bleeding ulcers cost too much to treat but that amount is miniscule when compared to how much a doctor is forced to pay in a lawsuit.
Recently a NJ doctor was forced to pay $6 million dollars to a woman who claims to suffer from a condition that cannot be proven to exist because pain is subjective. She claimed that while she was at his house, he tripped over her foot which caused her to fall. Although the initial X rays did not reveal any fracture, she was able to come up with one at a later date that showed healing. Because of the pain and suffering she could not continue going to college which prevented her from going to medical school. Field Goal kickers in the NFL wouldn't have received that kind of settlement, unless of course the ignorant and class envious jurors could blame a "rich, evil doctor".
The costs you bitch about are your own fault because you support communists with your votes. If doctors were allowed to compete for our dollars they would still be making house calls.
"Well, if the World Health Organization says so it must be real...NOT!"
Should I trust a REAL medical authority like Sean Hannity or Bill O'Reilly?
"The costs you bitch about are your own fault because you support communists with your votes."
It must be awful living under the yoke of communism in France, England and Canada.
"If doctors were allowed to compete for our dollars they would still be making house calls."
Funny, in France there are still doctors making house calls. Even in the wee hours of the morning. And the World Health Organization ranks them as number one. I bought a CD in 2001 for 20 euros. That was $16US at the time. I can't afford to buy European CDs for 20 euros anymore because now they'd cost me $30US. All those European votes for "communism" sure don't seem to have devalued their currency.
The World Health Organization is a subset of the United Nations, which was founded by the French. No mystery there why they would vote themselves #1. Here is their standard with more emphasis on “fair financial contribution” than on actual skill and technological level of the health care system.
“The goals for health systems, according to the World Health Report 2000 - Health systems: improving performance (WHO, 2000), are good health, responsiveness to the expectations of the population, and fair financial contribution. Duckett (2004) proposed a two dimensional approach to evaluation of health care systems: quality, efficiency and acceptability on one dimension and equity on another”.
They also base their stats on population density rather than actual population Here is the breakdown of their basis. While the below stats almost accurately mirror the actual populations of the top six rated countries by WHO standards, it woefully and purposefully underestimates the actual population of the United States.
U.S. 18,605,920 vs 300,000,000 people not including illegal aliens
France 60,495,540 vs 64,000,000 people
Italy 58,092,740
Austria 8,189,444
Spain 45,200,737
Oman 2,577,000
Japan 128,084,700
On October 17, 2006, the United States population was estimated by the U.S. Census Bureau to be 300,000,000.[121] The U.S. population included an estimated 12 million unauthorized migrants,[122] of whom an estimated 1 million were uncounted by the Census Bureau.[123] The overall growth rate is 0.89%,[1] compared to 0.16% in the European Union.[124] The birth rate of 14.16 per 1,000 is 30% below the world average, while higher than any European country except for Albania and Ireland.[125]
France
In France, most doctors remain in private practice; there are both private and public hospitals. Social Security consists of several public organizations, distinct from the state government, with separate budgets that refunds patients for care in both private and public facilities. It generally refunds patients 70% of most health care costs, and 100% in case of costly or long-term ailments. Supplemental coverage may be bought from private insurers, most of them nonprofit, mutual insurers. Until recently, social security coverage was restricted to those who contributed to social security (generally, workers or retirees), excluding some poor segments of the population; the government of Lionel Jospin put into place the "universal health coverage". In some systems, patients can also take private health insurance, but choose to receive care at public hospitals, if allowed by the private insurer.
France is largely known for providing one of the leading health care systems in the world. In the film Sicko, which portrays the flaws with American health care and emphasizes the success of Canadian, British, Cuban, and French health care, the successes of the French system are noted. Health care, including dentistry and other forms of medicine are completely free at the point of need. In fact, the French hospitals pay their patients back the amount they paid to get to the hospital, such as the cost of fuel or taxis. If a woman has a newborn baby, a government nurse will come to the house daily to do the laundry and cook - for free. Also for a minimal price, the nurse will clean the whole house, so that the mother simply has more time to bond with her baby.
The French healthcare system was ranked first worldwide by the World Health Organisation in 1997.[42] It is almost entirely free for people affected by chronic diseases (Affections de longues durées) such as cancers, AIDS or Cystic Fibrosis. Average life expectancy at birth is 79.73 years.
As of 2003, there are approximately 120,000 inhabitants of France who are living with AIDS [2]
France, as all EU countries, is under an EU directive to reduce sewage discharge to sensitive areas. As of 2006, France is only 40% in compliance with this directive, placing it as one of the lowest achieving countries within the EU with regard to this wastewater treatment standard [3].
The main points to consider, and if anyone on this site has any intellectual morality, they will then conclude that the high costs of health care in America have nothing to do with a nationalized health care scam perpetrated by liberal politicians.
Nowhere in the world do providers have to face the threat of excessive and frivolous lawsuits, as do the providers in the United States. That cost in malpractice insurance gets passed on to the consumers. Nowhere else in the world do potential providers have to meet the stringency of prerequisites or the costs associated with becoming a health care provider. Those costs are passed on to the consumer. Nowhere in the world do developers and manufactures have to face the costs and trial periods for presenting a new medication, new medical device or new medical procedure as they do in the United States. The United States doubles the amount of Nobel Peace Prizes in Medicine than the whole world combined but many of these amazing discoveries will never get to see the light of day in the American Health Care system due to the incredulous costs. You put the same burdens on the rest of the world that our liberal politicians place on the American system and then we’ll see how the rest of the world ranks.
All I can say is that if you hate America so much that you choose only to be part of the problem then it might be easier and cheaper for you to just move to France. They love people who hate America. Just see how much their Muslim population has grown over the last few years.
The devaluation of our dollar has nothing to do with anything you've mentioned. We have a tax code that punishes productivity, discourages savings and rewards mediocracy and sloth. Our current dependency on foreign oil is another factor in the devaluation of the dollar, which by the way, much to the chagrin of the EU, is still the standard for trade in the world. Another fact you happend to be ignorant of or purposely ignoring is that the eruo does not have the same value throughout the EU. It is simply a decimal point difference much like the British pound. People go to France to visit. They come to the U.S. to stay.
Why don't you look up the unemployment rate in France before you move there? When was the last time we had mobs running through our cities burning cars because their welfare was not high enough?
"All I can say is that if you hate America so much that you choose only to be part of the problem then it might be easier and cheaper for you to just move to France. They love people who hate America. Just see how much their Muslim population has grown over the last few years."
I'm not following how you feel that being in favor of universal health care would mean an American hates America. Do Englishman hate England because they have universal health care? As for the Muslim population of France, is it any greater than that of the US? Between 1990 and 2001, the US saw a 109% increase in Muslim population. Was it truly greater in France?
"Nowhere in the world do providers have to face the threat of excessive and frivolous lawsuits, as do the providers in the United States. That cost in malpractice insurance gets passed on to the consumers."
This seems like a good argument against frivolous litigation, but not against universal health care. A grocery chain for which I worked as a young man had training videos in which they claimed to lose $4 million per year in frivolous litigation from customers slipping and falling on spilled items. Just as litigation adds to medical costs, I'm sure it also raises the price of a jar of pickles or a gallon of milk.
"The United States doubles the amount of Nobel Peace Prizes in Medicine than the whole world combined but many of these amazing discoveries will never get to see the light of day in the American Health Care system due to the incredulous costs."
I haven't heard of these Nobel Peace Prizes in Medicine. I didn't know costs could be "incredulous."
Find me a poll of average UK citizens who love their health care system.
While you're at it, apply for a patent search and the nonrefundable application fee for the FDA. Of course the costs may not seem incredulous or unbeliveable to someone who thinks the government needs to run every aspect of our lives and besides the greedy, rich corporations deserve to pay out the nose. Of course everyone forgets in their rush to allow politicians to get even for them that costs are just passed on down to the consumer.
I bet you know about Al Gore's Nobel Peace Prize though don't you? Of course any real accomplishment must be ignored or people wouldn't want to go to France so bad.
The idea that health is a right and that medicine and treatment should be "free" is so stupid. Do you really believe that if Obama becomes President that that will be the end of congenital heart defects and cleft palates, Cerebral Palsy, etc? Health cannot be a right because government cannot guarantee it. Who you gonna sue for all the people who develop lung cancer but never smoked?
I can't wait to see how you progress with some leaf from the rainforest that is supposed to cure everything. I'm sure you'll give up way before you fill out all the government forms but just in case you get to the average $50 million dollar mark to put your rainforest miracle drug on the market, how much will you charge for it if it is only approved for conditions in 0.04% of the population?
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