Checking.... 
Here is what I mean by alternative therapy, thusly drug treatments and surgery don't fall into this category
http://en.wikipedia.or...ve_medicine
let's stay on task people
Chiropractic related strokes?
Acupuncture related infections?
Probiotic related chronic inflammation coronary heart disease?
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 16 votes
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prayer  
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Scientology |
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Herbal AIDS cures
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Homeopathy
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Chiropractic
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All Of Them
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Reiki |
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Chelation therapy for things other than metal poisoning |
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Veganism |
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The Atkin's diet |
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33 grupies have voted on one or more of the 10 answers. This topic was started by Skrrrriti
on July 3rd, 2008. Tags: medicine, quacks
Topic rating:
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I couldn't say it better myself. Although I do worry that the excess colloidal silver in their bodies may harm the poor vultures :(
Very true - sorry vultures.
Blue vultures would be totally sweet.
win!
http://www.ftc.gov/opa...scures.shtm
About damned time the FTC actually did their job...
^ I'm sayin' son. No fucking shit, marked as such.
well, I say add it anywhoo
okay!
While I agree completely that a preventative approach is best, I don't think "many" (if any) alternative therapies can control health issues. However, it is most helpful to follow such a statement with an example.
Understanding the risks and the benefits are more important then dismissing it all. Western medicine does support some alternatives. I have used many alternatives for female related issues. I use natural alternatives to steroids for my sons eczema. My sisters son has a rare form of M.D. and without research of natural alternatives my nephew would be very uncomfortable. My aunt has kidney problems from sugar diabetes and only uses natural medicine from Mexico . She feels great. I can go on and on. I met a women at the mall who had breast Cancer and cured herself through alternatives. I think it is possible, but not everyone has the same chance. That is why i said nothing is 100%. My brother works with cancer patients and almost everyone comes back with cancer. It would not hurt to try alternatives along with your doctor's prescription.
the plural of anecdotes is not evidence, that is to say your stories prove nothing
http://www.quackwatch....belief.html
by example I meant proper controlled studies, please link to real data, not stories, if you feel you can prove your point, alternative therapies are harmful, they give false hope and use up people's money that could be spent towards real treatment
The plural of anecdote is not 'evidence'? That's hilarious. I want that on a bumper sticker, or possibly a t-shirt.
"What do you believe works?"
Nothing is 100% successful, but I can say without a doubt that conventional medicine is vastly more effective than the majority of alternative treatments, with objectively measured results 100% better. As you cannot provide proof of your assertion, you just decide to ask me a question and dodge. If you would like to know the basis of my statement, please read an intro biology text, Campbell and Reece is halfway decent
http://www.amazon.com/.../080537146X
although I prefer Alberts et al http://www.amazon.com/.../0815316194
then explain to me how the proposed mechanisms of homeopathy, acupuncture, chiropractic, iridology, magnet therapy, etc. could possibly work given the constraints of reality and human physiology. You do know the stated mechanistic basis of these therapies right? Good doctors do not recommend these things, quacks and the uninformed do. You have yet to give an example of "after they prove to be effective." Gee, maybe its because this has not been proven. A good website to research alternative medicines is
http://www.quackwatch.com/
here you will find the science that the above answers are based upon
an excellent podcast on the issue (more technical) is http://www.quackcast.c...h-2008.html
http://nccam.nih.gov/clinicaltrials/
Great actual studies (well a portal to research)
So I take it you have read the findings of these research avenues, yet still support people paying for alternative therapies with limited to zero efficacy? Fueling false hope. Which one in particular? They are not all equal.
Don't some alternative therapies become conventional ones? I am thinking of the ones science looks at and confirms there is evidence to support efficacy. Doesn't acupuncture come under this sort of heading? I am old enough to remember when everyone (in the West) laughed at the idea that needles stuck into the body could do anything useful. Now it is has been demonstrated that surgery may be performed using acupuncture as the sole anaesthetic. So sometimes science comes out in support of alternative therapies that are then lifted from the realms of quackery to respectability. In the same way ayurvedic medicine is sometimes laughed at in the West by average people. However, I think that is quite mistaken. Science does not laugh at it. For example, turmeric is used in Ayurvedic medicine and science has confirmed that it has some anti-carcinogenic qualities.
I think we should definitely distinguish between alternative medicines that have some basis in scientific fact and ones that have none. For example, I am quite prepared to accept that a decoction of willow bark would help with a headache (salycylic acid) but I am quite unprepared to accept the claims of psychic surgery from some crone who presses her withered claw into someone's fat belly and "pulls out" a chicken liver and says to fat belly - "Your tumour is removed - you are cured - that will be 10,000 dollars - cash no cheques".
thoraby
"Doesn't acupuncture come under this sort of heading?"
no, what is the basis of acupuncture, qi, a fictional energy, here is an excellent summary of the best (ha) acupuncture studies
http://www.quackcast.c...cast_26.mp3
Skrrrriti--- "Good doctors do not recommend these things, quacks and the uninformed do." You are being very narrow minded. I have carefully chosen doctors in the past that are open to both ideas. Read more about CAM and the link below.
http://focus.hms.harva.../forum.html
Kharsanajen - thank you. However, you must remember my positive outlook on alternative medicines is limited to those that have stood the test of scientific analysis. Elsewhere in this topic I have said that those who offer hope to the dangerously ill where that hope is clearly quackery should be hanged and left for the vultures to pick clean. Even Skrrrriti would allow alternative medicines that passed the tests I am sure - Skrrrriti is a scientist after all. What I doubt he would do is accept any alternative medicine (or indeed any conventional medicine) that had not been rigorously tested and found to have some clear therapeutic efficacy. And there is nothing wrong with that.
"You are being very narrow minded. "
http://en.wikipedia.or..._to_emotion
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem
Is this your best reply, accuse me of being narrow minded just because you cannot prove your point? and just give yet another anecdote. I have given you a chance, please chose any alternative therapy and prove it is better than a conventional treatment. And that article is pointless, just because some are taught doesn't mean they work, the article provides no proof yet again.
I support these Complementary/Alternative Therapies- visualization, aromatherapy, acupressure, yoga, herbs and meditation.
"You have not shown me research results of Complementary/Alternative Therapies not working."
The default of the scientist is disbelief. The burden of proof is actually on you. But whatever, sorry I aggressively challenged your belief system, please continue assuaging your cognitive dissonance.
So these "visualization, aromatherapy, acupressure, yoga, herbs and meditation." Seem pretty harmless, if they help you subjectively, whatever, your an adult who can spend their money on whatever you want. Just don't claim they work for others. Just learn the proposed mechanism of their benefit, so you can argue for them. Especially with the herbs, learn about the concept of a clinical dosage. Yoga is just exercise, acupressure? you sure you know the concept behind that one?
Acupuncture -
http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?cat=8
http://skepdic.com/acupunc.html
http://www.theness.com/articles.asp?id=3
http://www.csicop.org/...ncture.html
Aromatherapy -
http://www.csicop.org/si/9605/aroma.html
http://www.dbskeptic.c...r-of-odors/
http://www.skepdic.com/aroma.html
And of course, Penn & Teller:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0t-aDILb5I
Sorry! YouTube is reporting that this video is no longer available.
http://www.youtube.com...ure=related
There are good, well proven natural treatments that drug companies can't patent like Cod Liver oil, etc. Therefore they do not receive the same mass marketing. but the name of alternative medicine has been dragged through the mud by all the nonsense products that offer nothing outside of the placebo factor. The problem is the placebo factor seems to work often, it seems to kick start the body into healing for some people..
I like to see a clear & simple rating system implemented, to sort out the bullshit products, from the few that actually work & work well.
&uot;I like to see a clear & simple rating system implemented, to sort out the bullshit products, from the few that actually work & work well.'
That would be an excellent thing, I think the most effective way to weed out the crap is to ask "what is the mechanism of the proposed alternative treatment?" if it is incongruent with known physics, biology, or invokes the word quantum, its crap. Or if it proposed treatment says it cures multiple systems (whole body), or if it says it can rid the body of nebulous, undefined "toxins" its crap and the marketers are relying on the general population's ignorance of science to cash in; however, if their claims are true, the Nobel committee should be in contact with the inventors directly. Of course the piss poor science education curriculum is largely to blame, and the shit media for almost never being skeptical.
fwiw, I don't think the placebo effect elicits actual healing, it just elicits a change in perception of symptoms or it administered as a disease cycle is naturally waning
well, you can't go solely by "known" treatments, new things have been discovered that have totally reshaped the way people think of science and medicine, why can't it happen again?
"well, you can't go solely by "known" treatments, new things have been discovered that have totally reshaped the way people think of science and medicine, why can't it happen again? "
I said known priniciples of science, not known treatments, but anyhow, Yeah sure, it could easily happen. I am not a a priori skeptic, I would love to be proven wrong, but I was describing a general rule when evaluating claims, if its proposed mechanism is completely outside of the body of knowledge a consumer should be very skeptical, revolutionary advances in medicine are made daily, but they usually don't appear on infomercials, in the paper, or sold by friends. There are way too many products that rely on jargon and people's ignorance to sell shit
for instance
http://abc-wholesale.a...rce=froogle
This whole product description is insane, biophysiobabble that doesn't mean shit. Unreferenced hokum. I truly wish their was a mild way to cure every disease, but I understand its probably not very likely. Other people want it to be true even more and thus ignore facts in order to believe