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Points Per Answer (Top 20)
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Your "gut feeling" does not supersede the Democratic process, Mr. Van Valkenburg. You and the two county commissioners who voted f...
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Your "gut feeling" does not supersede the Democratic process, Mr. Van Valkenburg. You and the two county commissioners who voted for amending the initiative should be ashamed to call yourself public servants.
Is there even a point to voting any more if the will of the people can so easily be subverted by two people? [show less] |
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Next election cycle- vote for candidates that will respect the will of the voters. Start now- write letters to all the media sour...
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Next election cycle- vote for candidates that will respect the will of the voters. Start now- write letters to all the media sources. Call the commissioners, email the commissioners, better yet- stop by and let them know how you feel and your intended actions.
Consider running for public office- get involved in the community dialogue - LET IT BE KNOWN that disrespecting the voters is WRONG- [show less] |
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I'd like to solicit legal representation to sue Jean Curtiss and Barbara Evans of Missoula County's Commissioners Office for illeg...
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I'd like to solicit legal representation to sue Jean Curtiss and Barbara Evans of Missoula County's Commissioners Office for illegally nullifying my vote from last November. This would be the same as if they altered or ignored my registered vote during the election.
And to those who believe passing Initiative 2 sends the wrong message to our youth ... how would you like to explain to them that our government officials have the ability to alter YOUR vote, which in this case was the vast majority? And this initiative was for marijuana use only, not other drugs ... so it's up to parents, teachers, and clergy to educate our children not only about the PROPER voting process, but also what the bill or initiative is really about. [show less] |
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(No description provided)
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It still is "WE the people" not "We the government". They seem to think that we are all imbiciles. We seem to not be able to read ...
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It still is "WE the people" not "We the government". They seem to think that we are all imbiciles. We seem to not be able to read what we vote on or can't 'cypher' past the third grade. We vote, we pass initiatives, we have them changed to fit the political aspirations of others. The State of Montana is still, and will remain in the early 20th century as long as we have officials pronouncing their own political agendas. [show less] |
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Someone in the county just needs to get everyone together and protest or goverment individuals like this will continue to chip away at our rights.
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CRCP has been planning a rally and peaceful march from the county courthouse to the federal courthouse on this day. We have speak...
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CRCP has been planning a rally and peaceful march from the county courthouse to the federal courthouse on this day. We have speakers lined up, we are making posters before hand and getting the word out. Rally for ending the war at home, on the people- rally for voters' rights. That day also from noon to 1 at the UM Oval. There are events planned into the night. SHould be lots o' fun!!! Watch for dragons [show less] |
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It would seem the proper thing to do is to remove the authority this group has over your vote. I'm not from Missoula but it would ...
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It would seem the proper thing to do is to remove the authority this group has over your vote. I'm not from Missoula but it would seem that some constitutional amendment or some regulation allows these 3 people to override your vote. Whatever you do about the two commissioners involved, you need to change that law or it will just happen again. [show less] |
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Fred Van Valkenberg is a Democrat with a lot of creds. He fought in the Legislature during the Dark Years of Republican administr...
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Fred Van Valkenberg is a Democrat with a lot of creds. He fought in the Legislature during the Dark Years of Republican administrations. I am still wrestling with the position he took on this matter, because I like and respect him and appreciate his past service to the people. Jean Curtiss is another Dem. She pays a lot of attention to the rural mindset, I think. She normally comes down on the same side of issues as I do. on't ask me to explain the intractability of our Sherrif, another Dem I think.
One thing is clear, the message of the value of medical marijuana has not quite penetrated. Ditto so-called "victimless crime." [show less] |
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Missoula County is an amazing little piece of Mother Earth, but there are really bad things happening here every day. Why cant we ...
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Missoula County is an amazing little piece of Mother Earth, but there are really bad things happening here every day. Why cant we be a community to be proud of? Why cant we take that step and give the voters credit for what they voted for? Why cant we drop the misguided notion of pot being a stepping stone to hardcore drugs? For the love of God, let the peace-loving folks keep their marijuana without making them the focus of intense scrutiny and the utmost prosecution"remembering that some folks have to carry large amounts simply to allow the little people to have their small amounts. Law enforcement can replace them with something else with just a little bit more effort. Theres more than enough crime out there to go around.
Letter in the Missoula Independent, March 29th issue- "Strong Convictions" [show less] |
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it is not there place to decide weather we know what we are voting on or not because that is completely opinion
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Well, since the gloves are off now I'm going to unleash the dragon. Hogs263, I know you wish we had a local gestapo unit to solve...
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Well, since the gloves are off now I'm going to unleash the dragon. Hogs263, I know you wish we had a local gestapo unit to solve this problem for you, but unfortunately we don't. You sound like a f*@&ing nazi! Intolerance is something the Third Reich promoted. To bad their isn't a local SS chapter for you to join, they might actually like what you have to say. For the rest of us, take your gestapo views and shove them up your ass! I hope I never run into you on the street because there'll be some fireworks to say the least. And just for the record, I make more money than you do... from my "legal" job.
gh0stb0t [show less] |
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GREAT!!!
So to all you dope smoking imbeciles out there, think about this. After you take a bitching hit off of your newly purch...
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GREAT!!!
So to all you dope smoking imbeciles out there, think about this. After you take a bitching hit off of your newly purchased glass pipe and hand it off of to your best bud (no pun intended), you can be charged with a felony. Yep, believe it.
So please continue what your doing. The "concerned" citizens of Missoula will keep fighting to make out streets safe from illegal drug use. Oh by the way, go get a job you pukes. Hogs263 [show less] |
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Checking your credentials...
(public topic in Missoula)
on March 22nd, 2007. 58 grupies have voted on one or more of the 16 answers.
Comments
Leave a comment
http://digg.com/poli...ting_Democrac
http://holotone.net/...er-democracy/
You should know that the photograph you are using on your site is copyrighted material by the Missoulian and is being used without permission. Please remove it and call Editor Sherry Devlin, 523-5250 or Photography Editor Kurt Wilson 523-5244 for permission to use it or any other copyrighted material from the Missoulian in the future.
Thank you
Kurt Wilson
Fot this kind of messages i love GT ( too).
lol,
Holotone? is this true?
IANAL
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ianal
are you the only one who had a photographer there last night?
Mmmk.
Good to know the righteous people at the Missoulian are watching out for copyright laws. You never know who might be getting rich off of someone else's stunning photographic image on this grupthink topic... lame.
*shrug* I'm not trying to cause conflict here. Now my image is courtesy of holotone.net ;)
This one's licensed as Creative Commons By-ShareAlike-NC:
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/3.0/
Feel free to spread the love far and wide!
Did the Missoulian claim a photo that isn't theirs? I'm confused.
No.. From what I understand the poster of this topic originally used a photo from the Mslian as part of this discussion. The Missoulian asked for it to be removed, which davidthedrake had no problem doing. It's since been replaced with my photo.
The original photo for this topic was from the Missoulian story. It has been changed. BTW... DIGG THIS UP:
http://digg.com/poli...by_the_People
Last time I checked, doesn't Federal legal precedent disallow copyright infringement claims on photos of public servants?
It was true!
And i think it was lame...
Holy cow, they can DO that in America?
Just another reason I'm glad to be a Canadian - my vote actually counts.
If you took the time to write these commissioners (which I HIGHLY encourage), please share your letter with us.. Mine is below:
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To: jcurtiss@co.missoula.mt.us,
To: bevans@co.missoula.mt.us
Re: The Initiative 2 Amendment:
Thanks for allowing the "gut feelings" of one single citizen override the entire democratic process; Never before have I heard so much discouragement with local government from my friends and colleagues. A friends son asked me yesterday if there was still even a point to voting any more if their vote could be changed by two single people.
Any politicians who infers that I made a mistake with my vote or am not detail-oriented enough to understand the language of the initiative frankly deserves exactly what they are going to get come election day.
Having an opinion about I-2 is one thing, but supplanting Democracy to implement some strange personal morality is the act of a fascist -
You two should be absolutely ashamed to call yourselves public servants.
We will not forget this on election day.
Disrepsectfully Yours,
--
Cole M******
Citizen
PS: I'm not sure what good it's going to do, as you've already demonstrated that you don't give two damns about what your constituents think, but perhaps you'd like to peek in on the discussion going over here:
http://www.grupthink.com/topic/5605
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Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 13:08:53 -0600
From: "David Drake"
To: bcarey@co.missoula.mt.us
Subject: Thank-you for standing up for the people
Body:
Hello Bill;
I wanted to take this opportunity to thank you for attempting to stand up for the democratic process and stand up for the voice of the voters in the recent decision to amend Initiative 2.
It is extraordinarily unfortunate that you sit among others who are so quick to acquiesce to "gut feelings."
This will not be forgotten come time for elections.
Thank you again.
And godspeed.
Very sincerely,
--
David Drake
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"While everyone around me is busy drowning... I float." - Aesop Rock
Matt Singer has a great piece that relates to this subject at NewWest:
http://www.newwest.n..._trust/C8/L8/
The same voters that voted to put them on the county commissioners seats
trusted that they would uphold the law as declared by the people.
Instead they've decided that the voters must have been wrong. Well if
thatâs the case I bet the voters were wrong about voting for them as
well.
DATE: 03/24/07
To: jcurtiss@co.missoula.mt.us,
To: bevans@co.missoula.mt.us
---------------------------------------------
--------------
Perhaps you forgot...
Democracy (literally "rule by the people", from the Greek demos, "people", and kratos, "rule") is a form of government. While the term democracy is typically used in the context of a political state, the principles are also applicable to other groups and organizations.
When did you decide to move from Democracy to benevolent dictatorship? You may think we, the people of Missoula, are not smart enough to educate ourselves on the issues we vote on so why stop with just Initiative 2. Perhapses if following your reason for casting our votes aside like an unimportant piece of trash is to be the correct way then why not go back and change any and every issue present and past to meet what you "feel in your gut" to be the "right" choice. How the hell do you know whats is right for everyone? Do you or have you ever held any respect for the integrity or value for an individuals vote?
I'm not a marijuana user nor have I ever been so you may ask yourself: "Why would you take the time to write me a letter explaining how we took away your right to vote on a issue that won't effect you?". Well the answer lies in that very question. You've taken away one of the core rights this country was built on: the power to VOTE!
Perhaps you felt pressured to make this decision for the population of Missoula in an attempt to "better" the community but you have to ask yourself, how is a powerless, voiceless, and as you've assumed incompetent community expected to be better if the powers that be keep us under their boot because it's the best place for "them"? Respect is earned and it's safe to say that taking away our right to vote has landed you in a very questionable position. Good game...
Ohh by the way, we've decided to repaint your house because we have a feeling the color you've chosen was not the color you were going for...
-Another hushed voice of Missoula
Guess someone attached the wrong photo on the original comment about Initiative 2, but if its the Missouliam watch-dogs, it would be nice for them to print my letter I sent them just after posting my comment on this site seeking legal representation to fight the county commissionner's office!
Furthermore, to leap ahead to decriminalization BEFORE even getting an initiative like this one to stick would be fruitless. I say sue for the major violation here, which is our right to vote and preventing criminal county commissioners the ability to change the majority without having to go through the same process of attaching it to my voter's card come next election day, then use any compensation to fund programs like MPP in Washington to help medical marijuana patients get their permits. Seems to me, the more numbers (no pun) in our favor, the better. Why defeat our chances down the road? Lets take care of what we can NOW then worry about those bigger hurdles.
Sent to the Missoulian, kaimin.umt.edu, and the Independent:
Initiative 2
I would like to solicit help from a local attorney to sue the county commissioners office for deleting my vote last November, as if my vote was ignored or changed during the election process to suit their needs.
Iâm not only appalled that their office has the ability to change what the majority of voters elected, but that they can get away with it. I want to send the message that Iâm neither illiterate nor am Iâm misinformed about what Initiative 2 entailed. I will be seeking monetary compensation and the removal of the county commissioners that voted to change my vote illegally.
I can be reached at afatsoweezer@yahoo.com or through the Missoulian.
John Lehman
Another point, if the "gut-feeling" was that voters who passed Initiative 2 didn't really understand what they were voting for, what about those who voted against the measure? Don't they stand being labeled just as ignorant and illiterate?
And who are "you guys" Lamnidae? I just moved here, just in time to vote on the initiative, and applied for medical marijuana use.
Why wait for an election day? These people should be forced to step down. They have clearly flown in the face of the democratic process and have no business being in public office.
Also, please hold back the sarcasm in your letters as your ideas can easily be lost and your sentiment ignored. Be direct, but don't be a smart alec.
Montana, they did it in CA for Electricity... Do it here for Democracy... Take a stand and remove these people from office. Act!
Sarcasm may be annoying to some, but at times (and especially in an opinion setting) it does go hand-in-hand with the sentiment, and trying to stifle someone's God-given right to speak their mind is just as bad as taking away their voting privilege. I believe we are big enough to stand a little heat when our rights are being violated.
If you want to be read and dismissed as emotional rather than pragmatic that continue along your sarcastic path. I hope everything works out for you. But if you really want to make a difference take a moment to remove the emotion and sarcasm from your arguement and you may just make a cogent point and with that a difference.
This also is not about Marijuana. This is about the Democratic process. We elect people to represent our interests and ideals and when they fail to do that they must be extracted from office because they have no business being there.
I agree this is not about the issue of marijuana, as I stated in my first comment seeking legal representation. And since I wasn't one being sarcastic, I merely spoke-up for their emotional argument. We're all on the same side here and if it takes one no-nonsense person to stand up for the rights of two sarcastic and emotional opinionates, than so be it. Why does the court system prefer a lawyer to state the case of a victim who is dramatically charged by a crime? It is better to know what everyone thinks than to have to guess. Sarcasm usually plays an important role in my life and sometimes itâs needed to get to the point of an opinion (as long as it doesnât get out of hand, of course).
It IS important for our elected officials to understand that we take this as an personal affront to the most intimate of our freedoms. I'm just as upset about this transgression as I would be had they decided that the house I was living in wasn't "appropriate" for the rabble of my class, and took it upon themselves to move me while I was on vacation.
That being said, being a jackass isn't going to help, either. Be clear, be concise, and above all, be honest.
Did you see? There was an article in today's Missoulian, complete with a reference to Grupthink: http://www.missoulia...al/news04.txt
Thanks for that link. Good article I thought.
This just made Digg, folks!
http://digg.com/poli...by_the_People
Check out the (as of this writing) 105 comment discussion thread over there, as well.
And greetings to Missoulian readers! We've got a private Grup set up especially for Missoula folk that can be found here:
http://www.grupthink.com/grup/2
it looks like all the conversation went to Digg as well.
The conversation went where someone feels free to speak their mind, to use sarcasm or even name-calling in order to get their viewpoint across, and to continue the debate on important issues facing the rights of all voters.
Even with all that going on, there wasn't one person I did not understand or couldn't "feel" their compassion towards something as precious as their right to vote and then it getting taken away so easily, as it did in this case.
Kudos to freedom of speech!
Holy crap - This just made Slashdot!
http://politics.slas.../03/24/197258
What about spiritual use? This is the proper way the herb should be honored anyway. In all positivity, the democratic process has long been gone from our country. Does it surprise anyone really that this happened.
It sucks when the illusion is shattered, but there have been many who never believed it in the first place. Ask anyone who has had to fight against the flow for their entire existence.
None of us are free, the ones on the inside are just in visible cages. The rest of us are in cells.
It is scary to think of it and the reality. Any way does anyone think a spiritual approach could work? Like the Peyote church of the tribal people.
I guess if we had a sizable Coptic, Rastafarian, or Cantheist population in Missoula.
Yes, but there are many who view its use spiritually, as well as other spiritual orders who recognized the use in this manner. I know that many use it in this manner. The size or number of the involved parties shouldn't matter. Example, not everyone who voted for medical marijuana is ill.
Oh man... This comment was posted to the related NewWest article today, although it seems to have disappeared due to their "No personal attacks" policy:
"I'm old enough to remember that Fred VanValkenberg consumed significant amounts of then and now illegal drugs in a wide variety of settings. I'll grant you the fact that weed is a lot better now than it was thirty years ago but we had [as did Fred] much better psychedelics and coke. "
Nothing like a little hearsay to add some pizazz to the issue :)
I really think that if you are resorting to dredging up ones shadows, that you are not coming from the right place. It is a hard blow to take having them not make it seem like the voters didn't know what they were doing. However, it seems as this type of behavior woud be counterproductive to the whole movement.
Breaking related news - Feds Seize Medical Marijuana En Route To Missoula Patient Via UPS:
http://digg.com/heal...tient_Via_UPS
Related:
http://digg.com/offb...rests_for_Pot
Looks like Van Valkenburg's finally come around!