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159 grupies have voted on one or more of the 24 answers. This topic was started by hardcoretimmy1 on June 7th, 2006. Tags: abortion, morality
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Add a CommentYou want to know what the truth of the matter is? It's not my place to tell any other human being what they can or can't do with their body. Whether or not abortion is right or wrong isn't the issue for me - What's important is that we all have the right to make that decision for ourselves.
Are abortions ALWAYS right? What for every pregnancy, some pregnancies? What are you really trying to say?
This question needs serious rewriting.
Would you (or your girlfriend) have an abortion? How do you feel about your sister having one? How about the preppy girl down the street? The homeless girl you gave 50 cents to yesterday? The downs-syndrome girl down the street? Ann Coulter?
How close you are to the situation heavily influences your response.
"If a chick chooses to have sex without protection cause she 'wants to get laid' she can deal with the birth."
I'm sure it will relieve women the world 'round that they no longer need to make the real tough decisions for themselves - MarvelKnight is on the case! Maybe while you are it it, you could help them all figure out which college they are going to go to, who they should marry, or where they should work; I mean, obviously women aren't capable of making decisions for themselves, so SOMEONE's gotta do it, right?
If you aren't up to the job, I'm sure the government or church would be more than happy to pick up the slack.
Those women decided to risk pregnancy when they decided to have sex. That was their time to make a hard decision for themselves. The minute they get pregant they are no longer deciding for themselves but also for the unborn child, and the mother decieding to kill it is NOT acceptable.
Your logic leads to this...
I'm a parent and I have a child that is a financial burden on me. I decided to make a very hard and difficult desision to kill my child to save myself a few bucks. I mean the child would be better off dead than poor right? and I definatly would be better off without the financial drain. So I decided to put a gun to my child's head and blow his head off. It was a tough desision, but dammit, it was my desision as his parent. Also there is no way I would try and find a family to adopt because thats bad for the kid, so killing the child is definetly best.
It's a BS arguement.
Also before somone tells me "Thats just your opinion."
Well news flash people. All laws are based upon opinion. Someone or some group decieds something is wrong or right and makes it law. So I have every right to try and have my opinion foced upon women who wish to kill their unborn children.
If I knew a parent was beating their child, it would be my responsiblity to call the cops. Just as I see women killing their babies for finincial reasons, and minor birth defects it is my responsibility to try and get a law passed to prevent it.
Thank you!!;)
Now, I don't see you being handicapped by a large growth in your tummy for months on end. So I'm not seeing the point where you should be dictating this sort of thing on other people.
I think that us men shouldn't stick our noses too far into something that we don't have any first hand experience in. I don't like the idea of abortion, but it needs to be legal, because there are reasons why it will be needed, and why people will want it. And, it's better that it's done in a clean hospital room than in some back alley. (Which is what would happen if it was made illegal)
A potential person dies every time a woman ovulates and doesn't become pregnant. Should women just stay knocked up from puberty til they die?
I already responded to that tired arguement. All laws are moralities forced on us, that is how societies and governments work.
Eggs are not Unborn Children, Sprem are not Unborn children, Eggs fertilized by Sperm are Unborn Children. At least that is my opinion and I will do my best to force that opinion on you and others through the legislative process. Just as people force laws on me that tell me I cannot murder people I do not like, and that I can't shit on the sidewalk, and that I must keep my lawn mowed, and that I must wear a seat belt for my own saftey, and that I must smoke outdoors here in California and that I must pay taxes to take care of the poor and unemployed.
So yes, I am attempting to force my views on you and others.
It's also a ridiculous arguement to say that you have to be directly affected by something to act on an opinion. If I use that logic: If I see that a child is being abused by his/her parents, I should stay out of it, becuase it does not affect me, it only affects the child and the parents. That is BS.
Lord and this last arguement, haha. "But people will do it in back allies." Damn, thats like saying well people will murder other people anyway so why don't we make it legal and let a hospital murder other people with injections that we want to kill, that way its cleaner. Or that people will steal anyway so why not let them. Sorry, but no. Just becuase someone does something that is wrong does not mean people have to support them becuase they will "do it anyway."
And just to be clear.
YES I AM TRYING TO FORCE MY OPINION ON YOU (If you live in the US) AND OTHERS! Get over it, that's how societies work.
Forgot to mention, it was the woman who decided to risk the possiblity of carrying around an unborn child for 9 months. She made a choice to risk it, and she just as everyone else in the world has to live with the consquences of her choices wether good or bad. You don't go killing your innocent offspring becuase YOU fucked up.
You say what I think and can't get out in intellegible sentences. I'd somehow back you in this argument/opinion any way I can!!! Thank you for your eloquent and unselfish morality.
That's a very interesting point, Bit.. Based on your wording ("Just as I see women killing their babies for finincial reasons, and minor birth defects"), allow me to go out on a limb here and assume that you support abortion under certain circumstances (ie. rape, risk to mother's life, etc.). How does your hyper-morality hold up under those circumstances? Using your ridiculous analogy, would it be justified in your mind to kill your child if he/she was a product of rape or severely deformed, correct?
Of course not - But the point only goes to illustrate how little relevance your "financially burdening child" example has to the discussion.
I think this poll has done an excellent job of bringing to light the vast and varied points of view regarding this subject; Most people feel strongly one way or another - And you know what? I respect that. All you pro-lifers, go on ahead, bring that baby to term and adopt it out; I think that's awesome!
However, it isn't the governemnt's place to tell a woman that she can't have an abortion any more than it's their place to say that she HAS to.
The moral decisions you are responsible for making stop where your body ends.
You'll probably say it was avoidable since this is an issue very few people change their minds about. However, the woman did her best to minimize the risk of pregnancy, thus she is forced to carry to term a child she does not want? Have a little embryo stealing resources from her body for nine months? Sorry, nonsensical.
I'm saying that you have no rights over another person's body. There are certain laws that have been passed, but almost all of them are things that you can't do to another living person. (Can't smoke inside because secondhand smoke causes cancer, for example.)
In most places, spanking your child is still legal. If you were to interfere, you'd be arrested. The law exists to protect the rest of us from the self-righteous (that'd be you).
Eggs and fetuses are potentially people. Calling them "unborn people" assumes that birth will occur, when that's often not the case. A woman's body can reject a fetus at any time; it's not anything new. If it doesn't make it to birth, it's not a person. Sounds horrific, but that's how it is. I'll leave the specifics to the medical experts, that's not my field of expertise (nor yours).
If it's a matter of importance; the mother's life is always more important than the child's. Abortion might not be the best choice for the child, but it might be for the mother and for society.
Also, there's nothing tired about the "don't try to enforce your morality on other people". It's a constant battle that's waged every day. And I think it's pretty obvious that a lot of people here don't want to live by your rules.
The abortion option always needs to exist. I don't like it. I find it distasteful. However, it shouldn't be made illegal. If you don't like abortion, figure out a fool-proof method of contraception. Better contraception = less abortions. People are stupid. People take risks. A woman's life shouldn't be thrown away because she got knocked up when she was drunk.
As for killing people, I think that "He needed killing" should be acceptable in court (maybe where the jury is 12 people who knew the deceased well enough to know whether or not he needed it). A few more people might get killed, but it'd make people a bit nice to each other.
However, based on your posts, I think we're unlikely to reach much agreement on that issue. I *would*, however, caution you against your belligerent subjectivism when you say that the law is all about one group deciding something is wrong and forcing that view on everyone else.
From the standpoint of pure political power and mob rule, perhaps you're right. I'd say much of the world today is trending in the direction of "whatever 50% + 1 want, they get," a development that, among other things, bodes ill for legal abortion in the U.S.
But 50 million Frenchmen *can* be wrong. For those who wish to see a system of law that protects the rights of the individual from such violations, a proposal for a new law needs more reasoned argument than simply, "I want it and have enough political power to make it happen, na na na!"
Damn you!!!
Last year I worked for the Campus Womens Centre and I had many young women approach me to get help with dealing with unplanned pregnency. Even more yound women came to look for information of the morning After pill.
While I worked there it was always my policy to remain nuetral if the girl wanted information on abbortions I gave it to her no questions asked, like wise if she was pro-life and wanted info on addoptions I gave it to her. I kept my beliefs to myself.
Some times Scary accidents happen, it is not my place to judge! I may be pro-life on the inside but on the outside I represent a nuetral party and respect everyones desier when put in this unfortunate possition.
Whiskey? Tango? Foxtrot?
Yeah, didn't you hear? Obama's gonna perform a post-birth abortion..... ON EVERYONE!
finally, a policy i support 100%.
It's officially called "The 4th - 395th Trimester Abortion Initiative" or, if you prefer to avoid the "A" word, "Patriot Act III".
http://townhall.com/co...mments=true
http://newsbusters.org...n-media-mum
http://www.washingtonp...102197.html
I could give you more sources if this still isn't enough.
"As an Illinois state senator, Obama opposed three legislative efforts in 2001, 2002 and 2003 to give legal protections to any aborted fetus that showed signs of life. The 2003 measure was virtually identical to a bill President Bush signed into law in 2002 that unanimously passed the U.S. Senate.
Obama and other opponents of the Illinois bill have noted the state already had a law to protect aborted fetuses born alive and considered able to survive. Moreover, they said the proposed legislation would have undermined the landmark Supreme Court case on abortion, Roe v. Wade, in ways the federal law would not. Among those opposed to the state effort was the Illinois State Medical Society, which argued that the bill would interfere with the doctor-patient relationship and expand civil liability for doctors."
Way to cherry pick, though.
PS: Did you hear that Obama wants to eat our brains? It's true, I heard it on Rush!
It was found that Obama lied about his motives for voting no on it. The state bill already had the same things in it that the federal bill did that Obama had claimed it didn't.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlons_Razor ;)
"It was found that Obama lied about his motives for voting no on it. The state bill already had the same things in it that the federal bill did that Obama had claimed it didn't. " *
* needs citation
It was in one of the sources I listed in my previous post
http://newsbusters.org...n-media-mum
"Some right-wing blogger dude" ≠ citation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newsbusters
If people can use Newsweek, CNN,and MSNBC as sources I should be able to use conservative news sources.
don't look at me, i get all my news from http://www.zombo.com
"If people can use Newsweek, CNN,and MSNBC as sources I should be able to use conservative news sources. "
http://media.richardda.../kingme.png
*sigh*
OK I almost went crazy from Zombo or as he pronounces it Zombogo.
As for holotone, I was trying to prove that media is biased so if you are looking for a neutral view it is extremely hard to find. What in the source I showed you was wrong?
"Obama's post birth abortion plan."
George W Bush's post birth abortion plan has been implemented in Iraq for six years now.
for the record, he's actually saying "zombocom"
Bansaisequoia The Difference is that those people in the military voluntarily joined. Now if there was a draft then it would be different and your argument would hold much more weight.
i would have assumed that bansaisequoia was not just referring to Coalition forces...
Silly uewe - Everybody knows if they aren't white Americans, they don't count....
of course! how can i be so narrow minded. thank you once again for showing me the error of my malinformed ways, holo.
Alright my current view on the subject now includes civilian casualties, meaning that they are as morally apprehensible as abortion.
http://www.opposingvie...on-be-legal
http://www.opposingvie...-life-begin